Strangest religion

Dawkins response is worth a read:

Bullseye.

You told me only the other week that you not only believed but totally supported god ordering the stoning of someone for collecting firewood on the sabbath

And again you take my words out of context, I said in the infancy of a religious movement rebellions must be put down - in the biblical era rebellious movements were put down with force.

Today, perhaps they would be handled in a different way... But they would be handled none the less.

This has nothing to do with how Hashem may interact with his creation (and I am not ascribing human characteristics like gender and emotion to Hashem, I am speaking of him as the Torah does in language that we can comprehend).

how can you proclaim bullseye when you haven't read the book?

Fine, I'll take a different example.

Your scriptures tell us that god turned Lot's wife to a pillar of salt for disobeying his command not to look at the destruction of Soddom and Gomorra. A 'zap' if ever I heard one.

Do you believe this is true or not?

It has nothing to do with a "zap", ignoring the vast variations between interpretations of the text, it is clearly stated that the people of Sodom had been condemned to die for their evil acts, those of merit would survive and the immoral would perish.

We do not know the reasoning (if indeed Hashem "reasons") or the process in which Lot's wife was transformed to a pillar of salt, the Torah merely provides a vague narative which functions as an example of the awesome nature of Hashem delivered in a style which followers of Jewish thought would be able to connect with throughout the ages.

why?

rebelions by their nature threaten that which they revolt against, Franco's revolution put an end to liberalism in Spain and introduced an era of fascism; on the contrary Guy Fawkes revolt in the UK was crushed and democracy, protestantism & the monarchy were saved.

This idealogical Jewish rebellion was no different.

All religion is is a set of ideas that people can choose to subscribe to though. Everyone is free to choose their own religion, and how much of that religion they wish to be a part of if any. Anyone who chooses not to follow the ideas of that religion and start their own isn't threatening that religion at all.

If the reason that people are not working on the sabbath or following any other part of a religion is because they're scared of getting stoned by members of that religion, or 'put down' in some other way then that's a pathetic and disgraceful reflection upon the perpetrators.

I mean, it's just absurd when you think about it: if I start a religion tomorrow, am I entitled to 'put down' any local rebellion against my ideas? Or are people free to make up their own minds about what they'll do and what they'll believe?

so basically it was nothing to do with god, it was the early jews who were threatened and responded with violence.
god would certainly not be threatened as he is omnipotent.
seems to have echoes today to me. israel threatened, respond with violence and claim god is your right to do so.

And yet again you've taken the event out of context, the nation of Israel had just entered into a covenant with Hashem; In choosing the hebrews G-d would deliver them from bondage and they would deliver Torah throughout the world... Minutes into this deal there was rebellion that threatened this holy mission.

The stoning of the man on Shabbat has nothing to do with his individual rights, but to do with the influence his actions would have on the future of Judaism.

Why do you make assumptions on a G-d you know nothing of?

If the Jews don't know the intentions of their G-d what hope have you?

I don't think I will ever stop being amazed at what the religious mind can be made to believe.

I'm not making the assumptions, you are. you assume god wanted the jews to spread the word and that therefore it was ok for stonings to take place as long as the greater good was served. you assume that the greater good was what god wanted. and if I know NOTHING of this god it doesn't seem like you jews have done such a good job in the last 3000 years

maybe you all deserve a good stoning

The best sex you two will ever have is going to be with each other, you both know that don't you.

so if you have no idea of his intentions,, what word have you to spread ?

'god is comin but we don't know what he want's to do yet'

We don't say he's coming?

whats the word then ?