Pointless

then what about chemotheripy and radiothreipy not OUTRITE cures but do help,

You are factually and demonstrably incorrect.

If you have skin cancer, you excise it , and provided it has not spread you are cured. If you have renal cancer, and it hasn't spread, you excise the kidney and you're cured. Indeed, if you excise it early enough almost every cancer is curable.

If you have leukaemia, you wipe out the immune system with chemo/radiotherapy and replace it with a stem cell transplant (some religious types oppose research into this naturally) - this is usually done with curative intent.

Not all cancers are curable; though more than you might think are.

There have been studies into the placebo effect, and patients do get limited benefit from placebo, it has no influence whatsoever on cancer progression and you're wrong to say it does.

Perhaps it's me being the insensitive hard nosed scientist again....but if I get, say, an early lung cancer, I'll put my faith in the surgeon rather than the vicar, because the evidence tells me the surgeon can help. If your faith tells you otherwise, well, noone can force you to be cured, and you can gamble on there being a heaven if you wish.

Quite right Jimi, they can prolong lives with excellent results compared to not using them

I'd just add that you can cure certain cancers with chemotherapy; some forms of testicular cancer for example.

I would also put my faith in the surgeon... but I wouldn't force others to live by beliefs as thats fascism.

For a scientist you have a hard job understanding what cure means.

the 'truth' about religion can neither be proved or disproved since it is a matter of the suspension of disbelief.

I personally find it impossible to believe that the universe was created by a being who then created a planet in one tiny corner of it in order to populate it with sentient beings who'se purpose was to worship him and lead lives in accordance with his laws which he gave to one man 3500 years ago in a language open to interpretation. Failure to follow these imprecise laws would lead to eternal torture by another subsidiary of the god franchise whose sole purpose is to shit on the omnipotent creator.
It seems to me to be just as unlikely as Santa (sorry kids)

I really don't mind anyone believing anything they like. . but.
The truth is peoples beliefs inform their actions and if this country was to return to a 16th century christianity or a 21st century Islam then the results for me personally could be dire. We do not live in a vacuum and if the so called morality of the bible with it's violence and hate were to be the basis of life here instead of enlightenment rationality then we would have justice based on an eye for an eye and rational debate stifled because of blasphemy and women and gays persecuted and all the rest of it. I'm a liberal. I believe in live and let live. religious people do seem to want to tell me what I can and cannot do. If I want to see Jerry Springer the Opera I think I should be allowed to. If they don't want to, fine. But they seem to want me to be banned from it. Or banned from taking the piss out of their beliefs. They can take the piss out of mine if they like why not the other way round?

The opposition of science and religion is a false because they are at the fundamental level both unproveable. No one is ever likely to discover a cast iron, proveable, experimentally verifiable theory of the origin of the universe or the nature of matter and energy, only likelyhoods. and no one is ever likely to disprove the existence of god.

As Brid says we NEED to believe in something and so it is likely that most humans will do so be it God or Allah or Shiva or Jupiter or Ra. And others will not.

Just don't follow on from that with persecutions of those who believe differently is all I ask.

can u tell me what cure means please joe?

both occassionally kill cancer cells, but neither are guaranteed cure and the cancer usually returns at a later stage of the victims life.

We don't have a cure for cancer a treatment and cure are not one and the same.

certainly jim.

A cure is the restoration of health, if this restoration is temporary then the illness hasn't been cured.

I said you were free to make your own decision, I don't understand why you refer to fascism? It's not the same as making a decision to withhold lifesaving treatment for someone else.

'Cure' in the medical sense generally refers to 5 years of disease free survival following treatment; however when we refer to curative intent, we mean treating the disease and preventin it from ever reoccurring. What's your definition?

so basicly that statement is saying 2 me that, my mother has temporary restoration as there is no cure for cancer jsut prolonged treatment

but what if it doesent come back, does that mean she was cured or just lucky?

but some of us dont belive in luck so what wud it be called then

For the first time in months I agree with most of that.

Other than your anti-religion rant, the moral backbone of occidental society is the bible... And while it has been corrupted by man on numerous occassions it has also provided the conscience which allowed man to overcome such perversions.

and if gods so clever why does a being created in his (perfect) image get cancer in the first place? It's not very sporting of him to create a clone and then insert a susceptibility to a disease which will cause a painful and lingering death is it

that means when they cut the cancer out it was successful, its not a cure though as it was cut out.

but this is all etymology which bores the arse off me...

It is perfectly possible to cure certain cancers - ie they will not come back; whether this is the case with your mother is an issue she will have discussed with her doctors, but I certainly hope it is

I don't think the bible is talking of hashems physical form... although I know a few million jews that believe heaven is shaped like man

oh well back onto 2 ure fave subject!


prooving ure superiorty

I thought you said Jews believed in evolution, and that god didnt create man

successfully cutting somehting out isn't curing... its cutting it out!

but i too hope it doesn't return, as much as me and Jimi don't get on... I love his mum

jewish defence leuge dont

like any religion judaism is fragmented, chassidism was a movement that evolved in the 1700's and there interpretation of the Torah is often quite literal.