Pointless

The suffering servant is a reference to the nation of Israel (as it was in the previous songs), I know Isaiah 53 better than I know my own mother

And I can understand the Hebrew version.

I thought you'd be messainic, you spoke the lingo are you part of that sunderland congregation?

Sorry this next post took so long my internet has been up to allsorts!

lol I was looking forward to a good old inter-faith battle

Well that's one way of interpreting it, however to me verses like these don't really make sense in that respect and surely fit perfectly with Jesus...

5 "he was pierced for our transgressions"

9 "he was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence"

10 "the Lord makes his life a guilt offering"

12 "he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors"

"he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors"



Verses like that, but aside from that there are around 250 prophesies about Jesus in the old Testament, some of which Jesus fulfilled himself through what he said, others by his actions.

There are prophecies about none of his bones being broken, water flowing from his body, him drinking wine vinegar, people casting lots for his clothing,loads and loads and loads.


But lets not look at that, lets look at the timescale, and I will probably get this a bit wrong as I'm only coming to grips with it myself, God was with Israel and spoke to the Israelites with Abraham etc, there was a 300 year period where they did not hear from God and they went into captivity in Egypt, God spoke to them again and Moses led them out but yet again there was another 300 year period where they did not hear God, then was it David who came along, man, I shouldn't really be arguing this without brushing up first! haha!

But basically the way it works was there was a 300 year period where the Israelites did not hear from God then they did, and then there would be another 300 year period etc etc and after the last 300 year period Jesus came.
Since then, the Israelites have not heard from God for 2000 years! That's 2000 years!

Jesus gave his life as a living sacrifice so that the people of Israel would no longer have to give sacrifices to God because they were unclean. Rather than giving sacrifice after sacrifice to get to the centre of the temple and even then sometimes it was too holy for people to go into Jesus came as the PERFECT sacrifice and the "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom." Mark 15:38 symbolising the fact that as a result of Jesus being the perfect sacrifice we had been made clean and are now can enter into a that Holy of Holy places via a relationship with God which is what I am in now and let me tell you its absolutely awesome!! The same reason why you still can't event type the word God because he is so Holy yet I can enter into relationship because I have been made perfect!

Think about the people who spread his word, they believed what they had seen to such an extent that they all (except for one) died for what the believed, and the myths/legends could not have been created because they were written around 40 or so years after Jesus had died therefore there would have been people living who could have denied any false claims that were made.

Instead of just having hope that I have done enough to please God and earn eternal life I have ASSURANCE before the thrown of God because it is not what I have done but because what he has done for me!

And to answer your question I am not actually part of a Messianic community and neither is my Dad, he is at my old Charasmatic Evangelical Church in Durham and I am at a reasonably similar ish church in Leeds (where there is some crazy exciting stuff happening at the moment its sooo exciting!! )


*Sorry that took so long my internet is being really weird and won't let me post

So what objections do you have against Christianity Ness?

The hebrew translation is:

"But he was wounded FROM our transgressions, he was crushed FROM our iniquities."

Christians deliberatly mistranslated bits of the song to compliment christian theology

Didn't Yeshua attack merchants in the Temple area? According to your addition to the o..nly testament he did anyway.

Which part of Isaiah 53 is this?

Yeshua was not descendent of King David....

I have no idea what you're getting at here?

I thought he died for our sins?

In reality the Temple was detroyed by the Romans after they rebelled, it had nothing to do with Yeshuas death 30-40 years earlier.... The reason it was never rebuilt was because by the times the Jews were in such a position the power had moved away from the high priests to the Pharisees and rabbinic judaism (which revolved around a synagogue - not the temple) had become the dominant force.

all Jews had to visit the temple? I don't understand why you think some couldn't go?

But rabbinic Judaism which replaced the temple, pre-dates Yeshua.

Every jew has a relationship with g-d?!?!? We believe that every human does - this isn't exclusive to those that convert to christianity/judaism... Just as we believe that heaven isn't exclusive to jews or christians.

lol get yourself to a shul... all that is new isn't true

Post up your prophecies and I'll give you the correct translations, christians have been distorting the only testament for too long

ps. sorry lucy.

Can I ask why do you believe in God? What proof do you have and where does you belief come from?

Have you been brought up with religion?

As you may have guessed I'm not a believer in things which I cannot believe as real, but I am agnostic.

Please enlighten me, I would really find it interesting considering my Uni degree.

nah he's genuine, he knows evangelical scripture to a decent standard.

whats your uni degree?

And i'm in the g-d brigade lucy

My uni degree is Media culture and society which looks at life through those things, also involving politics and peoples views on the meaning of life etc. I find it really interesting stuff, and although im not a believer myself, as i believe in other things, I would never try to force my views on people - which is why i cant stand the people in the street who tell you you are a bad person in Gods eyes because you gossip.

I just find the concept of religion hard to understand, and bringing religions teachings to 21st century life a little difficult.

Its ok Joe, its a good hijack for once not "what do you think of fluffy slippers" shit lol

forgive my ignorance joe but what is the g-d brigade? You believe in God?

ness simply smiled at me and said not to get him started.

yep, attend synagogue once a week, hebrew school and I plan to study rabbinic literature in Israel.

as for gossiping thats one of the biggest assurs a jew can commit (just after murder ) we call it loshon hara though

but this is not to say that no one participates in a bit of gossip though surely -

"If at all feasible you should give people the benefit of the doubt. If you relate an incident, not giving the benefit of the doubt in circumstances which obligate you to do so, you would be guilty of speaking loshon hora, and thus failing to perform the commandment b'tzedek tishpot amisecho ... "Judge your neighbor with righteousness."

Therefore you would not be able to piss take?

oh Joe........

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