Pointless

ps. http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

I read a book by stephen j gould in which he said that the idea of humans as the top of the evolutionary tree is a mistake and that we are infact an abberation as the simplest life forms such as bacteria are the most successful. the more complex a life form is, the more it is likely to die out as the conditions on the planet change. After were gone there will just be god and some bacteria.

I never stated energy was G-d, I indictated that energy was the pabulum of existence:

I concluded my thoughts on this here

Have you read the scripture Andy? have you read the Talmud? Or are you working from what you were taught at primary school?

There is an indisputed harmony amongst nature, how man and nature interacts is an amalgamation of confusion... but when we sit by a babbling brook it calms us, when we look into a dogs eyes we can sense its mood, while emotions are often on edge during the quiet before a storm... There exists within nature an unspoken dialogue which is free of language... Its is through this mediumthat I believe the G-d of the Jews communicates.

Come again? that's half a sentence from one of the largest scrolls of the ancient world?!?!?

When you have a 5 year old child do you teach it quantum physics? No you teach him the foundations on which he can later acquire this knowledge.

Only christians read the Torah literally andy....

But multiverse hypothesis is just as speculative as G-d theory, all Judaism proposes is that there is a deity; the rest of the Torah is commentry.

Whether this comes in the shape of Einsteins deity or the Christian diety is down to interpretation... but there is mountains of "scientific" evidence based on "observation" that would indicate that there could be a deity.

Then perhaps you should listen to what people tell you instead of telling them what they believe?

again listen to what i say, not what you think I say...

I believe the Torah to be the word of G-d, I don't believe that G-d spoke to the Jews at mt sinai with a megaphone, I believe every tiny molacule resonated with his wisdom... I don't believe this to be an accumulated wisdom like that developed by man - but the laws that govern the universe and in turn govern man.

G-d theory implies that because this universe can support life there must be a G-d when the odds are so greatly stacked against it... where as multiverse theory impies that because this universe can support life there must be others that can't when the odds are so greatly stacked against it.

Both are speculations based on observations.

who says it appears? we don't know whether things can exist... for example we know within this space time continuum energy is eternal - it may well be outside of this space-time-continuum.... we know within this space-time-continuum there are laws of nature which everything obides by - they may well exist externally.

We don't know enough about this universe to dictate how a deity would manifest or even porpose its purpose... If einstein couldn't comprehend it what chance do you or I have?

Here this deep man......

you two must have totally baffled yaselves if thats the case then

Then how do you explain the laws that govern our universe.... why do actions force reactions?

As Einstein so poetically phrased "behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable"...

This demostrates your mindstate perfectly andy, one will often find the most intricate wisdom in those with poorest education....

Out of the infinite wisdom that resides within this universe; man knows but a microcosm - we haven't even scratched the surface. Yet you speak with such authority on nothing more than brief glimpses of an occassional thread-end of the awe-inspiring tapestry that is the universe.

could you imagine doing ket and buckets with me these days

You're so clever andy.....

got some fly agarics at home mate, that would be interestin lol

My beliefs are traditional Jewish beliefs andy.. I've not invented any of this myself - just as you haven't invented multiverse theory... We're recycling the theories of greater minds.

I wish you'd stop telling me what Judaism is and isn't... only a fool would continue to speak with such authority on something he's never experienced, contacted or read.

As for Einstein, I suggest you read some of his ideas on religion and a deity...

next time I'm in newcastle... I'll bring the humus

Andy there's only 1.1 billion athiests in the world, there are individual religions with more subscribers....

Throughout this argument you've confused your surroundings and learnings as fact and you seem unable to view things from alternative perspective...

There's a a cheesey saying which rings so true in this debate, "the more you know the less you show".... For someone that has a hard time grappling with fact v thoery - you don't have make a lot of noise.

there was an interesting programme on sunday about the gospels which never made it to the new testament. there were loads more than the ones that are presently in the bible. Including some which posited that since the wrathful god of the old testament was SO different to the forgiving god of Jesus there must be two gods (which wasn't such a strange idea in the roman world)
anyway the church authorities sat down and decided which ones were kosher (or not ) and burnt the ones they didn't like including the gospel according to Mary and the gospel according to Paul.
There are loads of people in the world who claim to believe the bible is the word of god but actually it's a construct of a bunch of 4th century blokes.

thats a great theory, but the dead sea scrolls predate the 4th century

no I meant the new testament

I can believe that... the first mention of christ was about 70 years after his death... at a time when prophetical figures were well documented by the greeks, romans and hebrews.

there are parallels with the Mormon church where Joseph Smith and the other founders gradually accrete a mystical dimension and their writings begin to be discussed and pored over by the present church leaders in an effort to tease out more meaning.
I'm sure this happens with most religions, over time historical figures become lost in a pile of 'interpretation' which enables the church authorities to use them as a method of social control.
I would imagine it happenned to Abraham and Moses as well but I wouldn't expect you to agree with that