Pointless

i cant watch them videos at the min as im at work and teh boss is due back anytime and as soon as i see his car im offskies

If you reclaimed the land of a multi-tribed powerful people, they were likely to retaliate and destroy you.

This is without delving into issues of morality, assimilation and the purpose of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Why are you attempting to tell Jews the purpose of their g-d?

The story of Jericho is about ensuring the future generations of the nation of Israel (both physically and morally), think of hashem like a father, the younger a child the more involvement a parent has in his upbringing, but as this child blossoms the child is granted more freedom so that he can learn to stand on his own feet.

If the biblical chronology is correct it is likely that Hashem intervened in Jericho to ensure that the nation of Israel weren’t crushed at their birth.

If there is a conscious G-d then it would be logical that his relationship to man changes over time… Just as any relationship evolves over time.

This has nothing to do with morality.

i'm hardly on here any more. it's YOU still trying to be controversial sunshine

If we are to imagine Hashem as a parent it becomes easier to understand, the parent of baby that is crying because it’s ill would administer medicine. The parent knows that if he gives the baby medicine it will cry, but he knows that whatever short term suffering that child may feel through drinking the medicine – the long term rewards exceed it.

Jericho occurred at the dawn of Judaism, a time when the jews were infantile and extremely vulnerable – 3000 years on we’re not the same people. Just as a child aged five and a child aged twenty five are not the same people. Where Hashem once overlooked our every move he now stands backs and allows us to learn from our own mistakes and tragedies.

Just as a parent would.

I believe in the g-d of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.

Its that simple.

I find it astonishing that your arrogance prevents you from accepting the beliefs of others.

Science is great at explaining things, but its not very good at explaining people.

I'm not saying they cant, all I'm saying is whatever the belief and however a child is brought up this is still "forcing their views down peoples throats". If this is simply not bringing the child up to watch television, this is reversible, if it is not dressing your child in designer clothes, this too is reversible, and the child can make their own decision later should they choose to do so.

What I meant by my comments was not to sound fascist, I am simply trying to say that baptism and circumcision and so forth, it is making a choice for a child which becomes irreversible - should anyone be allowed to make decisions like that for children?

Its the same kind of thing where I HATE mothers who get their babies ears pierced - aaaaaah no! what if you didn't want them done?

Shouldn't people be allowed to make an informed choice about the matter when they are able?

It is ethically wrong to do this in my eyes - by the same token as simply asking questions to a set of people for a research project needs ethical consideration.

I'm not discounting myself from this however, I will make decisions which I feel best for my child when the time comes, but with choices that I make I don't feel I would make any irreversible choices, and when they are old enough, with each decision I make, I am going to do my darnedest to make them aware that it is just the way I do it, or I feel, other people think .... or some people don't agree with that because....

Above the basics, I want to give my child a balanced view of the world, whether that means explaining the Bible, the Torah, science, evolution or anything else that comes along. I want them to see that different people hold different views on things, and that you must tolerate others in society, whether that is for religion, politics etc.

What they believe is not a problem, as long as they are choosing it because it is right for them.

But I understand why people subscribe to those faiths and I don't pass judgement.

You're unable to do this, you don't understand why they do - so you go out of your way to humilate and offend them... How else could yesterdays signature be interpreted?

The reason most people subscribe to a faith is because they feel that there is deeper substance to material existence... Myself included.

Should a parent be allowed to cut her childs hair? In many societies you are prohibited from cutting hair.

You overlook that it is the culture of society which dictates what is socially acceptable and what isn't.

If a child wishes to leave that society later in their life; circumcission, short hair and baptism wont stop them... We are all "force fed views" as we grow-up, some of them like science and math seem very rational in modern England - while others like religion seem alien to many... But both are views a child is forced to learn (although forced is a clumsy word, it does not describe the process... but I'm using your language).

The vast majority of choices you make for your child will be irreversable, from the country you raise it to the father you choose (g-d help them if its Ness )... Its impossible to raise a child in any other manner.

This is a very vague statement, the upbringing your child recieves will determine the path he/she chooses. Its impossible to expose your child to all the knowledge in the world and its impossible to expose your child to a bias free source of information... There is no shame in this, but don't imagine for a second that secular english upbringing is any less "forceful" than a religious up bringing.

A very intelligent position.

lol andy your argument is "I don't understand how someone can have faith in something that can't be proven by science"... Its not exactly hard for me to win that argument.

If your asking me to prove g-d's existence you're a schmuck... Judaism is a faith not a science.

All im saying is that beyond the day to day basics (like what is socially acceptable in this country and what is not) , I aim to teach my child that there is more beyond whatever decision I make for them/they make for themselves. I'm not kidding myself that I will bring them up without bias, I will bring them up understanding it does not have to be that way if they so choose- that they have a choice - there is a larger constraint when in a religious family is there not? If you reject the idea of your families religion does this not ostracise you from them more than it would in a non-religious family?

why dont you kill yourself, then u have nothing to worry about

faith - pah. it's blindness.

i must stay out of these... i get so wound up

I don't understand why my beliefs provoke such hostility from you... Such bigotry is usually reserved for the far right.

We've gone over this argument so many times I'm bored of repeating myself; there are scientific reasons for my belief like anthropic princple & there are historical reasons for my belief like Mt. Sinai... However, the over-riding reason for my believe in hashem is faith.

I believe there is a deeper level to our existence than the material world.

Not at all, families hold different values... Where as a religious father may be dissapointed if his daughter becomes an athiest, a pascifist may be dissapointed if his son joined the army.

100 years ago most Jews were Jews because they were born Jewish ghetto seperated from the rest of society, thats not the case today - most Jews are Jews by choice; they could leave their religion at anytime... This is the case for most western religious folk.

I've got LOADS!!


Man I can't wait to get my teeth stuck into this debate again!!!

if there's a hell I'm in big trouble