On the subject of media bias in the Middle East....

"Can someone deny that Italians are a nation, work to destroy Italy, and all the while claim that he is not the enemy of the Italian people because he does nto hate all Italians? The question is obviously absurd. If you deny Italian nationhood and any Italian rights to their homeland, and seek to destroy Italy, no matter how sincerely you may claim to love some Italians, you are an enemy of the Italian people. The same holds true for those who deny Jewish nationhood and the Jews' right to their state, and who advocate the destruction of Israel. Such people are enemies of the Jewish people, and the term for their attitudes, even when espoused by people who sincerely like some Jews, is antisemitism." - Rabbi Joseph Telushkin & Dennis Prager

They wrote what I attempted to say in a style you may find easier to digest.

Since its conception Judaism has held that Jewish nationhood is one of the 3 pillars of Judaism, in the words of an ancient Jewish text (the Zohar) "G-d, Torah and Israel are one."... It takes an incredibly arrogant assumption on your half to dictate to Jews what it is to be Jewish.

What a totally irrelevant quote

I have never denied Jewish nationhood
I have never denied the right of Jews to a state
I have never advocated the destruction of Israel
I am not an enemy of the Jewish people.
Therefore, I am at a loss to explain how this quote makes you think I'm racist.

Interesting that this has been written though, isn't Israel:

Denying the ability to the Palestinians of an autonomous and independent state?

Are the Jews a race in your opinion Joe?

I take them about as seriously

About as seriously as I'd take a 'cunt!' or 'fuckwit!' from someone with Tourette's.....they can't help it.

Modern science doesn't like to use the term race, its a dated concept which is easily dismissed.

Why do you keep twisting my words, I have never called you a racist... I have called you an antisemite.

Judaism is more than a race, more than a religion, more than a state.... it is a nation.

sadly it's a 'nation' that seeks to deny another group of people their nation. There is no basis for such action. And since the palestinians are mostly semitic then I conclude that the state of Israel is an anti semitic state and as a supporter of that state you are an anti semite

If you were famous I'd send that in to Pseud's Corner at Private Eye.

For legal purposes, the Jew's are a race, thus anti-Semitism is racism.

However, leaving aside this obvious flaw in your labelling, there's the issue that I don't fulfil any of the criteria in the quote you gave to define anti-Semitism.

Therefore, I'm at a loss to explain how I'm either. Got any evidence to support your claims yet? You've had a day or 2 to find some.

andy again you're out of your depth, there are chinese jews, black jews, arab jews.... how can you claim that jews are a race?

there ios an ethnic group which is distinctivly jewish - but judaism is much larger than that group.

you come across a complete moron when you attempt to tell me what a jew is... you have no fucking clue and your posts are a testament to this.

yes forks - Israel is anti-semitic

it's like debating with school kids.

so let me get this straight...... I'm anti semitic, Andy is anti semitic, Israel is anti semitic, the whole of the media including the BBC but not including the Jerusalem Post, is anti semitic, the UK government, in fact all governments apart from the USA are anti semitic, the UN, self hating jews, arabs, muslims, christians, are all anti semitic.
Apart from you who does that leave? a certain amount of paranoia seems to have stolen your soul Joe

Andy and yourself are antisemites.
The UN is undeniably antisemitic.
The BBC is antisemitic/antizionist (which I believe are one and the same).
Self-hating jews are by definition antisemitic.
Many arab states are antisemitic (infact I challenge you to find one that isn't )
Many muslim states are antisemitic.

Outside of yourself and andy there are well documented cases of antisemitism from all those I've accused.

History has proven that we are one of the most hated nations on this planet - there have been more attempts to end us than I could ever comprehend... to assume that this prejudice would simply disappear at a time when the Jews are generating more attention than ever before is absurd.

:yawn:

You're battering on with your anti-Semitic rhetoric and still have found no evidence to support your claims.

With reference to your quote defining anti-Semitism, could you please explain what makes you think I am anti-Semitic?

Stick to this point please; the debate as to whether or not the Jews are a race is a different one, though one I would be happy to have another time - also, if you're now arguing that there is no such thing as a 'race', then you have no grounds for using the term 'racist' again in any context.

total cop out.

And you are antisemitic because you are an enemy of the jews.

I have never said anything that would make me an 'enemy of the jews'????

I have been critical of their foreign policy and military tactics, in the same way I have with numerous other countries.

You haven't got a leg to stand on with your frivolous allegations; it's getting more obvious with every rhetorical post you make.

I never considered myself an enemy of the jews either, my criticisms of the Israelis were in part due to sadness that the jews, of all people on the planet should be pursuing policies in Israel which seem to me to verge on facism and ethnic cleansing. This is to the detriment of the moral authority of jews who support those policies.
Which is not all Jews by a long chalk

Anyone who has read anything I have said is quite capable of determining that I am neither anti-Semitic, nor have I said anything anti-Semitic.

It's a sad reflection on so-called politically correct thinking today that Joe exemplifies the predictable knee-jerk 'Discrimination!' calls that permeate every aspect of having an opinion about a minority.

His frivolous lack of ability to support his near-delusional claims of discrimination on my part (and that of Forks) are reflected by his pathetic and shallow attempts to shy away from his claims by attempting to redefine the terms he used against all common acceptance of them.

The misuse of such terms undermines their importance in tackling the serious issues of discrimination that persist in our world.

I, for one, will continue to argue with anyone on here or anywhere else advocating human rights abuses in the name of self-preservation, or anything else. If this means I am to be labeled racist, I am confident enough in the intelligence of those reading to discount such claims in the absence of any evidence for them. I would have expected someone of Jewish ethnicity to be the strongest proponent of the international community speaking out when it senses human rights abuses are occurring; that he doesn't demonstrates a clear inability to view a situation objectively and dispassionately, and form an opinion based on facts.

Just wait for the England-Israel football game in March......I suspect a lot of us will be 'enemies of the Jews' for supporting England

Naturally, I agree with all your points

The twentieth century witnessed the birth of a new breed of antisemite; an antisemite that was completely oblivious to his prejudice, his mindset sculpted from traditional anti-jewish libels repackaged as a humanitarian plight.

Since the rebirth of Eretz Israel there have been less than 20,000 Palestinian deaths in around 60 years (in contrast to 650,000 deaths in Iraq in under 3 years) – but despite such low a death toll Israel has received a mass of negative global publicity (second only to America).. Modern antisemites think they are fighting a noble cause when in reality they are pushing a 1500 year old hatred.

Israeli’s controls the media.
Israeli’s are child killers.
Israeli’s value jewish life over all else.

Are actually libels thrust upon the Jews long before Israel came into existence, yet these are all terms Andy has thrown around and on a daily basis. Andy needs to ask himself the real reason he spends so much of his life trying to besmirch the nation of Israel.

If it truly were for humanitarian purposes; where are his threads on Sudan, Congo, Tibet, Chad, China, Russia, etc. all of whom practise genocides and often kill more civilians in a month than Israel does in 10 years.

There aee very few Jews that don't support Israel.

Outside of extremist sects like NK and Satmar (who oppose the state on religious grounds) and self loathers like chomsky and finklestien most jews support eretz israel.

Can you support your claim of ethnic cleansing? Cock.