middle east

Is it worth the effort? Unlikely.

then don't engage in debate with me... you're not my mentor, it isn't your duty to educate me... You made a statement - I asked you to substantiate it.

Sorry, but the line here is blurred, to my mind, by the scale of civilian death and destruction caused by the Israelis in the recent conflict.

Civilians were killed when Al-Zarqawiw as killed in Iraq- I accept that this was probably a lesser evil than allowing him to remain.

However, to say that the 100s of Lebanese civilians deaths caused by the actions of Israelis was justifiable because they 'regret' it is unacceptable. This is especially so as their deaths did not lead to any reduction in Hezbollahs ability fire rockets.

I objected when it was the Americans in the former Yugoslavia, the Russians in Chechnya, and I object to it now - so does Amnesty International:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5276626.stm

I welcome Amnestys actions, and welcome an investigation into Israeli conduct in this war. It is hard to reconcile their sophisticated precision guided weaponry, and "regret" of civilian casulaties with the deaths of an order of magnitude more Lebanese civilians than Israelis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyHQFyO_fu4

If you cannot differentiate between attacks like the one above and exploding bombs on schools buses then you're a lost cause.

How else could Israel respond to rocket attacks from civilian areas?

do you think hizbullah have been dealt a mighty blow?

no

but I take it you still think they should be dealt one?
I just wonder how far you would be prepared to go in that aim

don't you?

They're mutually responsible for the death of 1000 Lebanese.

Saddam is arguing in his trial thathis chemical weapons strike on the Kurds was a defensive strike against Iranian militants in the region, and that civlians deaths were collateral damage.

Do you think this is a valid argument?

No as Iraq were 3 years into the war before they first used chemical weapons against Iranian troops and a year later against Kurds.

Bit of a weak analogy AndyR

No not really. The point is about the level of civilian casualties that is acceptable in a military campaign.

If the Israelis had attacked Hezbollah, and not caused damage to civilian infrastructure and life they would have the support and priase of the world - including me.

I would have thought about 50 civilian deaths would perhaps be acceptable for what they achieved in Lebanon.

You, I assume, think the 600-odd is worth it, as you support further action, and I have yet to see you criticise the response of your armed forces.

Where`s your cut off? 1000? 10,000?

In fact, just so we`re clear, a couple more questions:

Do you support the Amnesty International probe into the conduct of the Israeli army?

Do you support the American investigation into misue of their cluster bombs announced today (apparently it wouldnt be the first time this has happened)?

Most imporantly, will you support criminal proceedings if it is found that they have violated international standards?

Saddam intentionally gassed over 100,000 Iranians, Israel killed 1,000 Lebanese that Hizbu'llah were using as human shields.

Andy you prove the depths to which anti-Zionist are willing to stoop do besmirch the state of Israel.

How would 50 civilian deaths be acceptable? What on earth are you basing that on?

000-5000 missiles were fired into Israel - almost every one of these was fired from residential areas.

Yes.

Kind of hypocritical?

No.

just spoke to my sister who has friends in israel who i think live near the city of herlizya (sp?)... their whole community was moved away from the hizbullah rockets and the area almost deserted... their house survived but others didnt.

one beautiful little town my sister visited in april this year has been destroyed, not one building survived unscathed. her friends are currently in the military and are to be stationed in the golan heights, hopefully they will be ok.

i've not read about this though, just the lebanese and their suffering.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/762447.html

Hizbu'llah guilty of war carimes... although my gut tells me they quietly released this report to silence the anti-israel accusations.

Everyone knows they're criminals anyway and wants them and their leadership prosecuted.....they just 'naively' expect better from Israel.

And it's on the front page of BBC news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5343188.stm

as a tiny link, its not a feature story.

The main reports were released a while ago to massive media coverage... Amnesty would of released both reports at the same time if it were an unbiased organisation.