Help pls

fukkin hell, this thread is gonna kick off methinks

anyone interested in a bit of a history lesson about the middle east should read Exodus by Leon Uris, a novel (well sort of) with historical backdrop about the birth of Israel, from post WWII onwards. Will explain a great deal of things and put events like 9/11 in context.

also a very good book.

....... btw, Leon Uris is obviously Jewish, so there is some bias in the book, but most of it is historical fact.

Without aggresive support from the US and the "West" Isreal would probably not be here today.

I agree with most of that........ the UN/US stepping in to liberate Kuwait after Iraq invaded was nothing to do with religion/land/human rights, even right or wrong....... was all to do with oil and economics, like it always is.

Anyone heard of East Timor....... probly not many, cos it doesnt have any oil

I am familiar with East Timor's struggle for independance since Indonesia's invasion of the country, but havent heard anyhting about it for a long time. I think I'll read up on it and find out whats going on.

Urgh

First I read this was about the media, not the events before and after the incident.

The media is the media. They don't have a heart and so will do what THEY want. They showed the same events over and over again. Did the one time not cripple the heart of every viewer? Even it did, they didn't care.

Could you sit and watch the person jump out the window continuously? No, I hope not. Sure, some could, but that is sick.

------

The attack cannot be justified. It was not human (Just like a lot of what goes on in the world - welcome to life). War is a terrible thing and some big nations are set to further damage the world. Our nation is included in this, (but from brown nosing only?).

I won't talk anymore, don't want to bore you all with a thesis or two

The events of September 11 have a great effect on me. Many reasons, including I was on top of that building that year looking out at the wonders. Due to that, I can't really comment anymore.

I am signing off. I am interested in how this thread supported your presentation from the criteria you set in your first post?

Re: Urgh

Thank you - ive took a lot from what you have said.

And everyone else It might not seem a lot but it's all helped not only with the presentation but to the way as how i look at things. (Did that make sense!)


Thanks again!

Glad it helped.

Congratulations on finishing your project

Would you like a gold star?

This topic is a good eye opener for people who are interested in the topic. Other peoples views can contribute and help you make your own decision as to how you look at the inicidents globally.

Here here!!

I strongly disagree with this view...

Just because a culture/religion is different it doesn't make it evil...

I've got a mate@work who holds very conservative right wing views, he isn't an evil person but he often comes out with shocking comments about "blackies" & immegrant, he isn't a mini hittler, but he was brought up in a culture where racism flurished...

Eastern culture in my eyes is similar - I strongly disagree with a lot of muslim regiemes (like the taliban) but to condemn muslims as evil backwards people is an extremely ignorant, offencesive and racist comment.

This isn't a dig @ you mark - but I strongly disagree with what you have posted... I have many muslim friends.

And america certainly isn't the land of the free - its capitalism @ its worst...

the rich get richer and poor get poorer, the extremes are shocking and in these extremes discrimination also flurishes... just like it does in the muslim world.

nowhere in the bible does it tell anyone they will become a marytar if they kill people.........basically it is a mis-interpretation of their bible that started this whole thing off.

now as for the media coverage, i reckon that the t.v feeds u what u want to hear so all of these stories about who did it & why r being portrayed that the arab world hate americans for this & that, when infact the truth could be that they don't agree with what america has done to them in the past....

i bet if we were to watch arab t.v it would b portrayed the same but the other way around, that it's all down to the usaetc.....

i personally don't agree with all the media coverage as it shows arabs in a bad light - thus causing rascist attacks all over the world against them. most of these people r innocent in this as r we, but because everything is exaggerated for maximum effect it is portrayed that they r all the same.......

i also agree with marks oppinion in someways but not in others.........

yes, admittedly it appears that bin laden did these attrocities but why did he do it............& how does he get away with brian washing people into thinking that if they kill people they will go to heaven.......................it's not gonna happen, it doesn't matter what language u speak, where u r from etc but u r never going to b taught that that is rite................

totally agree with you on this Mark....

I didn't know that's how they "stone" ppl in Saudi, that's horrific!

I'm the last person to be racist or bigoted, but some of the abuses of basic human rights carried out over the last 20-30 yrs by muslim fundamentalists are truly disgusting........ the most recent example, just look at what happened to women in Afghanistan when theTaliban took over. not nice

What the fuck has ANYTHING that goes on in THEIR country got to do with us? Not one thing.

If a man in your street doesn't wipe his arse after hes had a shite do you kicking in his door and FORCE him to wipe his arse or even do it for him?

No does you fuck! What the fuck has it got to do with you?

America is a global bully with a lot more than world peace in it sights. Giving guns and ammo to ppl to kill other ppl with is as good as killing themselfs..... that's what they did to the afghans.

One mans Terrorist is another mans freedom fighter....


9/11 was terrible..... but only for ome thing. Civilian deaths. If it was a Army Base they hit. I would be saying GOOD ON EM!

basic human rights and standing up against something that's fundamentally wrong????

unless you think that Amnesty International doesn't have a leg to stand on??????

I agree with u about much of American foreign policy though..... they will spout the above reasons for intervention when most of the time the reasons are economic, but forget about it when there's no oil at stake...... East Timor again.

What? Because I don't agree with your viewpoint I'm immature?

For your average, white, middle class worker America is the land of oppertunity. However if you belong to any minority this is no longer the case for example:

High wage black executives earn 20% less than their white counterparts

Now he's a high roller, his "not as well off" is still considerably greater than your avergae Puerto Rican or Afro-American living in the Projects... You try telling him america is the land of oppertunity and the american dream is accesable to all.

America is the land of oppertunity - just these oppertunities come around a lot more frequently to some.

America aren't invading afghanistan because they disagree with their fucking beliefs! This a political battle with huge econmical and political rewards... There are wrong doings all over the world, causes like amnesty int have been fighting these causes for years - america haven't batted an eye lid!

If you honestly believe the talk of invading iraq and the afghanistan was to stop the wrong doings in this country you are fool... And even if this was the case as pike pointed out - it isn't their fucking business!

Wrong doings, savage cultures?!?!? You need to look no further than america mate! They enprison countries in third world debt (which by the way is the cause of western culture!), they prosper on the sweat and blood of their neighbours, they respect the dollar and give a huge FUCK OFF to anything that gets in their way (kyoto treaty), FFS they still dish uot the death sentence (how is this any different from muslim executions)...

America is a capitalist superpower that dominates the world; Britain, a former colonial superpower that would like to dominate the world, its easy to see how so many brits are sympathetic to the american... I however am not as sympathetic as most... How does this show my age?

(but ur right class thread )

Glad to see this has sparked off a major debate, this really has been the best thread of the week so far.. I'll add more comments when in the right frame of mind to add to the debate. But when this is all finished i think a copy of this thread is gonna find it's way in an e-mail to No.10 - whether or not they're bothered about what we've put up is debatable, but i think they should see this - to see we're not put off by media propaganda about events taking place in the world.

Had to bring this back to the top as you'll all be glad to know that today ive done my presentation and it went well!



WOO HOO - Can relax now till after christmas!


Thank you all for helping - i used all your quotes!



XXX

*round ov applause*

Well done, hope u get a gud mark