Faith schools

Could you please quote the section of the Torah that refers to this; I haven't found any evidence of it.

so the story goes... BUT it's an old story, passed down, probably from a few sources - who let say COULD be bias.

i'm saying that there IS the possibility of OTHER explanations. i'm not just saying they lied - something could have happened at the time that they assumed was the creator. it's the possibility there could be another reason, other than the 3 u put forward

you've never read the Torah?!?!?

On day three the word creation is not used to describe the life forms that evolve... why would whoever wrote the Torah (if it wasn't moses/g-d) stop using the word create?

it was documented of historians of the time... and its quite something to decieve an entire nation, all the hebrews of the era believed they had witnessed g-d, their children knew they had witness g-d... its hardly an old wives tale.

maybe you're right, maybe it wasn't g-d that performed the all those miracles.... but does it really bother you that much if people believe it was?

it was just trying to get you to admit that there's the slight possibility it WASNT god

can we be 100% of anything?


other than it's 5 o'clock and my real life is calling

The translation I was reading says:

Which is here. What does yours say for the same passage?

Forgot the link :doh: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0.htm

hes a bit of an odd one this god isn't he/she/it.
I mean. He creates the universe (was he bored on his own?) and in one tiny corner of it he creates this earth and he sets everything up just so. And then he decides that out of all the millions of species on the planet he will pick out just one and give them free will and then he picks out one tiny sub set and decides to get especially chummy with them. Then he 'reveals himself' with some sort of cheap conjuring trick and tells his chosen chums that he likes them best of all but they havn't to eat bacon or else he will throw a wobbler and they havn't to make any images of him or ditto (perhaps he has copyright issues?) and then he says what they have to do is WORSHIP him.

Seems a bit egomaniaical to me but hey what do I know. I'm just one of the non chosen sub set.

And then when you die you get pie in the sky and can worship him some more. In fact, for ever.

Oh and he decides to play a joke and convince half the planet that he sent his son to get murdered by us when he didn't do that at all.
And before that he has countless generations of more or less apes strut about without a clue about what's going on.
And he has another whole bunch of people convinced that he's an elephant or the sun or the moon.

No Joe I don't study the torah or the hindu whatever or any of it because it is total drivel and my time on the planet is short.
If studying it gives you some comfort then I am jealous cos I have none but I do have a brain (the result of natural selection) and I can see that of all the things people would want to believe in this world there are two that it would be most comforting to grasp on to
1) we are going to live for ever
2) there is a nice man who is going to make it all right
and that is why there is religion.

There is a Muslim school near where i work and its called St Mary's

Again andy, you are displaying an extreme form of arrogance in attempting to explain Torah to a Jew after spending 5 minutes on google.

Mechon-mamre base their translations on the 1926 Jewish Publishing Societies Tanach, this is not an accurate translation – it uses King James English and was highly influenced by the times (this is best demonstrated in the anti-christian sentiment throughout, which was the result of missionaries trying to convert Jews at the time of print).

Unless you can read Hebrew you aren’t justified in telling a Jew what the Torah means.

Just for the record there is actually two “creations” of man, the second “creation” witnessed g-d creating man from dust (again supporting evolution)… Unless you understand Torah you can’t explain why the Torah would witness man’s creation twice.

If you genuinely want to disprove everything within the Torah I suggest enrolling in a course on biblical Hebrew and then progress to rabbinical literature… as until you understand it is what you read – you can’t attempt to disprove it.

You certainly wont find the answers on google.

Forks can you justify your arrogance?

Far greater minds than yours have subscribed to religion, infact some of the greatest minds of this era have contemplated g-d when exploring progressive science (even the mighty sceptic Stephen Hawking has dabbled with g-d theory).

I find it hard to believe that an under achieving nucastle user has reached a higher stage of enlightenment than the rest of mankind; you do not have answers and with age you’ll look back at your juvenile arrogance and cringe.

Let people believe what they wish to believe… Your arrogance is embarrassing.

Excuse me? I asked for your translation of it!

I have no intention of enrolling on a course in biblical hebrew - not only am I far too busy, but the sections of it I have read (however badly translated) look rubbish. A bit like reading the back of a book and deciding you don't like it

I asked for your translation, because I knew you'd just try to argue that the Jews who'd translated this had actually done it all wrong.

I don't see how creating man from dust is 'evolution'; the base components of DNA and things would actually be a liquid. Also, could you please clarify what you think a reasonable translation of the section I quoted above is? I don't see how anything involving 'creation' over '1 day' 'by God' could possibly be intepreted as actually meaning 'evolved over millions of years from the same primordial slime as plants and animals', however you try and twist it

Translating what you posted would be innacurate as its a simplified computer script - not biblical hebrew.

If you want I can translate from my shuls torah scroll tomorrow?

and what did that primordial slime evolve from?

Are there not elements like carbon and calcium present in our bodies? Hashem formed man of the "dust" he didn't create him from the dust... However moving away from the translation you cited, aphar (the hebrew word for dust) means simply powdered or grey... which could describe the vast majority of the matter we are said to of evolved from.

Biblical Hebrew sounds very vague

chinese script has been massively simplified for use online...

hebrew is similar, the only way to accuratly study torah is from a scroll (or a copy of one)... for example I use a 100 year printed book which belonged to my grandfather... however this is inaccurate as lot of the detail is lost in the print.

but you can take it from me that the third day is free of creation (like I stated), man was created twice which can be interpretted several ways... but in one of these creations he was formed from the dust.

If the bible isn't describing evolution - its describing something similar.

y dont u just shut the fuck up,

Jimi why are you always following me round?

nazi cunt.

In fact, the more I read it, the more I'm struck by the hypocrisy of this statement.

I've lost count of the number of times you've attempted to explain science to me after a few minutes on google, and to assume that we will be unable to comprehend the Torah due to the flaws in the translations (provided by other Jews) is frankly laughable.

It smacks of elitism, and dare I say a fear of contradiction, that you attempt to stifle debate on it with a 'you couldn't possibly understand' attitude.

The almost incredibly vagueness and widly different interpretations that fly round are quite sufficient to convince me that your interpretation, no matter how long you've spent studying it, is not necessarily either to correct one, or the only one.

nazi? u keep calling me a nazi, i dunno how u get that


i dont go round gassing people

Jimi theres a fucking picture of you dressed as nazi punk!