End of File Sharing?

People who like trance eat nothing but baked beans on toast and drink Panda Cola

either the music they are mastering is good in which case you don't need a high priced engineer to put his/her skill and creativity into it to make it good. or the input is ordinary and the engineer is the one who is actually making something interesting out of it.

you can download it if you pay
http://indiestore.7digital.com/soznak
or you can buy it in the street most saturdays

I think my point is that music is more than a business. It is a fundamental human need. great music is food for the soul. it is created by people who love it and want to share that love with others. but like everything else in our society it has been reduced to a commodity to be bought and sold like dog food. And the people who are in charge of that process are the ones who bleat about theft. when in fact they are the ones who are stealing from all of us.

copyright was a good idea when it existed to protect the creators of music and enable them to earn a living. That's why I feel i can justify charging for downloads and putting a hat out in the street for people to throw money in if they like what they hear. or charging to play a gig.
I can't justify some mega corporation still making money on the back of say Jimi Hendricks or Frank Sinatra or Ella Fitzgerald or Blind Lemon Jefferson or young bands who they have conned into unfair contracts or re-releases of old tracks in a different format or closing down Pandora Radio.
And I do pay for most of my music but I don't have any illusions that I am not just putting more money in the pockets of the man.

right. I'm off to eat beans

I agree with a lot of your points Forks but why do you feel the need to make money from music by selling them on 7Digital? Isnt that also using it as a means to make commerical gain - something you seem so strongly against?

I appreciate people need to buy new instruments, equipment and cover other costs but surely most money is made from performances?

good article on the subject

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/victor_keegan/2008/02/the_sound_of_free_music.html

i have nothing against the people who make music that people like, making money. I have nothing against people who make music that a lot of people like making a lot of money.
I object to the music biz taking that creativity and making shedloads of money for people who don't create anything and then using the copyright laws to stop people hearing it.
before recorded music existed there were still superstar musicians who were millionaires. they were musical geniuses either popular, or high art, it didn't matter. they made their money by people paying to listen to them. no problem with that. the copyright laws didn't exist.
When recordings were first made then the guys who made them sold them and usually kept the majority of the profits. But that was ok if any money came down to the artists then that was more than they would have got without the record companies. A few were able to become so popular that they were able to turn the tables and get a good deal for themselves. but what happens when the internet made it possible for music to be distributed for free?
suddenly all those idle bastards who had been coining it in on the backs of creative artists found they couldn't keep themselves in the style to which they were accustomed. so what do they do? they use the copyright laws to keep themselves in gravy. It's theft.

step away - or i'll make you suffer.

Sorry, but that's just not true.....

Mastering requires extremely acute and highly trained hearing to be done well (far better than any musician or producer will have), it's a highly skilled job, which requires high end, extremely good quality equipment to do properly; regardless of the quality of the music.

Just because you can get "mastering plugins" these are no match for a quality mastering engineer who really knows what they're doing, with the right equipment.

It's a highly skilled job and like any other line of work, this does costs money

I agree with most of the rest in the main......

I dont like baked beans but does Alphabetti Spagetti count?

yeah, but the only letters you'll eat are E's.

I like beans on toast with a fine cheese grated over the top and vimto

Taking it to the next level :groovy:

I'm sorry but MAKING music is what takes a highly trained hearing to do well. Mastering can be done with creativity and skill. But it is not a VITAL component of recorded music. There's plenty of stuff which was recorded in one take on one mike and pressed onto vinyl and sold millions and all the engineer did was twiddle a volume knob. The idea that only high end equipment can make good music happen is not so.
However good music cannot happen without someone having an idea, and having the ability to translate that idea into sound which works musically. they could be playing a pair of spoons but if they had skill and creativity they could make it something that people would want to hear. Similarly there are people who know something like Ableton inside out and still not make you want to dance, and there are people who don't but still can make you get up and boogie.And it's that quality which deserves to be rewarded not sitting in a boardroom exploiting the talent to get you a 6 figure salary.

We'll have to agree to disagree fella, but having a acute ear has no reflection on making music, having a good ear for pitch on the other hand does, but this is different....... Beethoven was deaf, and made some of the most beautiful music ever made! Most musicians are pretty deaf after a couple of years on the road, that doesn't make them any less able to write good music, it's an engineers job to translate that music and feeling of the band into something that works for the listener at home, and this is no easy task, and isn't possible just by putting a mic in a room and recording it. Even mixing and amplifying a live band through as system takes skill to do well, you have to understand the equipment being used and know how to get the best results from that equipment, it's not just about "twiddling knobs and hoping it sounds ok" and I don't think you can just say all these people have no skill. Maybe you should make sure the engineers at the next gig you play know how you feel about their skills and experience, see how good your music sounds that night

Proper mastering does require high end equipment, as does a good quality recording. I'd like to know which recordings you're talking about, to be honest....Microphones and desks from early days would cost thousands of pounds to buy today; and I'd be very surprised if the engineer simply turned up the volume......

I think it's a bit hypocritical to whinge on about musicians having a hard time, you're complaining about your art being under acknowledged by the indutrsy, whilst being happy to undermine the skill and experience it takes to engineer music well....is that not the same thing, or is it different because you personally haven't seen the benefit?

If you're a band playing unamplified music to a small group of people that's one thing, but anything that involves audio equipment, needs setting up and operating correctly, which requires someone that knows how to operate said equipment well, otherwise it won't work to it's full potential, and said band will sound bad......there is a lot to consider in doing this....

Incidentally I do agree that bands and musicians get a hard time, but I also know that engineers have a lot more to do with the sound of a recorded and even live band than you are making out, and think that deserves respect too

A musician can make a good track but a skilled engineer/producer can make it a great track.

see Nile Rodgers

Radiohead are a prime example of that! Godrich has shaped their sound since ok computer.....I'm sure the fact they continue to work with him is down to more than the fact that he knows how to operate a desk, otherwise why not just work with anyone?

Why do bands want to work with specific producers/engineers? Surely if there's no creativity in it it doesn't matter?

There is a great deal of creativity that goes into the recording ,mixing, and production of a good record, not just the music itself......

too right son!

some of the production tricks on the new Radiohead are absolute immense, the positioning of some of the sounds in the mix and the stereo field just makes them sound out of this world.

Theres a completely man made crunching sound in the second track that just sounds absolutely phenomenal when youve got the headphones blasting (and thats just off the 160kbps copy i bought for £1)

reminds me that i need to buy the CD to really blow the old bonce.

Where's that?