Dawkins getting slaughtered

That's pretty well spot on, but I'm not sure that not understanding the origin of the universe makes any opinion about it 'faith', and that was my point about the lobster. It's one of the few things I'm agnostic about, but I think it's a fascinating topic and I really hope that we find out in my lifetime.

You could apply it to anything in science - I'm trying to find out at the moment whether Drug A is better than Drug B - science can't yet tell us which is better, just like it can't yet tell us about the origin of the universe. To have a belief that "oh science can't tell us therefore (*insert deity of parental choice*) did it" is precisely as rational as yellow lobster theory.

I'm delighted to see robust debate on this issue. I think the transparent feebleness of the theological arguments in that debate was abundently obvious. Just because Dawkins tends to refuse to dignify creationists with a critical dismissal doesn't mean noone else does - Sam Harris, Carl Sagan, Daniel Dennet or any of the rest of them have all shredded a few in their time.

Joe - I'm baffled by your continued view that everyone has to have this automatic respect for an opinion because 'it's religion'. When Jimi talks BNP do you start all your answers with "well I respect your opinion but...."? What about BenC? Yet when you tell us all that evolution is a fallacy and the Old Testament is "absolute truth" we all have to respectfully tiptoe around? I don't think the world works like that anymore.

He wasn't presenting an argument of faith! He was demonstrating that because Dawkins had nothing to base his opinion on he was a schmuck for dismissing other theories.

Thats because you subscribe to the laws of probibility which exist within this universe; you move outside of this universe and the laws of probability are no longer valid....

get it yet?

You're a fanatic mate, my religion effects no one - Jimi's right wing views directly effect me.

The Irish guy isn't evanglisizing his religion, but dawkins is evanglisizing his faith.... He is attempting to convert people away from their beliefs and to follow his faith - just as you do with me.

My religion prohibits me from converting and preaching - so to suggest I do this is insanity... I don't want you to become jewish, I don't want you to believe what i believe... I just wish you'd stop being such an ignorant putz.

Are you a schmuck for dismissing yellow lobster theory?

I haven't dismissed it?

Do you understand how probability works andy?

OK, so you accept that my yellow lobster is exactly as likely to have created the universe as the Jewish god?

I can't watch the video cos streaming is blocked at work, but that arguement, and the flying spaghetti monster one, is just infantile.

Why?

I believe that my faith provides me with scriptural documentation of how the universe came into existence.

However, scientifically speaking there is as much evidence of the universe coming into existence through the flying spagetti monster, yellow lobster or big bang.... as the probability of this space-time-continuum does not exist outside our universe; probability may not even exist outside of this universe

get it yet?

Big bang theory doesn't try to explain the origin of matter for a start. Where did the matter for the bang come from? That's the question in this case, and it is decisively not answered by invoking Deity X, as Deity X is just as susceptible to the very same regression.

I simply don't understand your reasoning. You say quite rightly that we don't know the origin of the universe and should be agnostic with regards to it. But it's spectacularly irrational to then say that you believe the bronze age peasants who decided to write your paticular book of myths are in any way more qualified to answer it than modern cosmologists (or me and my lobster).

It adds nothing to any debate, and has the sole intention of mocking religion/faith.

The verbalisation of a belief influences others, Hitler didn't persdonally murder 6 million jews - but he is held accountable as it is through his teaching and his instruction that 6 million perished.

Jimi's view directly effect me.

My religion effects no one.

Maybe your practicing of it effects no one, but I'm sure there's a Palestinian or two who might argue that your religion does directly effect people.

Its just a variation of Bertrand Russels Celestial Teapot if you want a less ridiculous version. A common theological argument is that 'you can't disprove it', and no we can't but we can't disprove existence of anything and thats not evidence. I think its reasonable that any argument for the existence of anything must not apply to the teapot/monster whatever.

big bang does try to explain matter andy, i suggest you re-read your a-level textbooks there's the whole theory of lightbeams turning into light elements, then into heavy elements

I have stated many times that I believe there to be a wisdom in the jewish philosophy that exceeds man's limitations.

then they're idiots, Israel was founded by athiests, established by athiests and is currently governed by athiests

are we onto religion again? The board Vs. Rabbi "i've given up my sinful ways" Joe?

We all end up as dust eventually - nothing more nothing less.

Some people just have such empty lives/heads they need 'guidance' thru their lives. Why bow, grovel and scrape like a slave, to a being you never see, does nothing for you, just on the off chance that when you die, there MIGHT be something after life? and on the basis of heresay passed down like chinese whispers over thousands of years

Faith is such a strong, powerful belief - but like other things, it can make u blind to the obvious.

I think you're missing the point andy; you're the one who is dismissing G-d theory, not the otherway round.

Well, my Israel knowledge ain't so hot, but all religion directly effects people imo.

Community/charity work being one example.