does Israel have 'a right to exist"?

My posts go over your head bud

I can't be arsed to write you an in-depth explanation but its to do with the way Jewish society inbreeds; a Caucasian convert's DNA pool would be vastly diluted 10 generations down the line (it could be 9 parts Jewish 1 part Caucasian)... If a Jew converts away then 10 generations down the line his DNA could be 1 part Jewish 9 parts anything.

It’s to do with the interfaith relationship laws within the Judaic religion, despite the spread of Judaism throughout the world most of us share similar DNA (which Caucasians lack)... This isn't a coincidence.

Take me, I possess the surname Cohen; over 50% of all Cohen’s share the same DNA, this DNA can be traced back over the millennia to a time when the Cohens were high priests of Israel’s Temple.

If a Jew was to convert to an ethnic group with similar breeding habits, 10 generations down the line his genepool would be diluted in a similar manner to the scenarios we've been discussing.

by college I mean A levels.... I was doing business and computing - I remember teaching my lecturer how to program and it was at that point I decided to jack it all in

New borders were drawn up but where did future-israelli claim come from rather than the resident palastinians

Its an ethical question that only you can answer, I look at Israel in the same way I look at Native Indian reserves... We are the native people of the land and we were thrust in the diaspora... For 1500 years we have longed to return and why shouldn't we be able to?

It was our fucking country - we were made homeless and for 1500 years we suffered the most unthinkable tragedys known to man.

I don't think any state has a 'right' to exist, justifying genocide by statistical analysis is idiotic.

However Israel is the most exclusionary and conventially racist state in the world, how about they start by sorting out their own house as well as whats in the back yard..

As for the nonsense on divine claims and rights to the land, Israel was 'purchased' by monied jews in the 20's from the Ottoman Empire..

any fool with wikipedia knows this

explain....

the jews have no more claim to palestine than the celts have to london.
Just because they happen to have a written history which sets them in that part of the world thousands of years ago does not mean they have a right to it now.
My gf is greek cypriot and they know all about historical land claims. and look what that sort of ethnic insistance did to them.. it tore their lives apart. the same will happen in Israel unless it builds a secular state instead of a theocracy run by religious bigots. ie no more ssettlements which are jewish only. no more use of the planning system as a means of ethnic cleansing.
And if jews are the chosen people does this mean that the master of the universe has un- chosen me?

Israel is a secular state you twirp, there is a large arabic demographic - there are arabs in the bleeding knesset!

forks you're an antisemite, it saddens me to say this - but your jew bashing comments like "And if jews are the chosen people does this mean that the master of the universe has un- chosen me?" have nothing to do with Zionism which is secular movement.

And to clear up any confusion "chosen people" meant that g-d chose us to deliver the Torah message to the world... cock.

no it claims to be a secular state which is different.
and there you go on that anti semite tack again

but good point about the torah delivering stuff

why the need to raise the "chosen people" line? It doesn't take a genius to work out what you were implying.

forks there arabic members of parliment, the state and religion are completely unrelated (torah jews want a religious state - hence my pic), arabs have the vote, there is freedom of religion, how is Israel anything but a secular state?!?!?

I was trying to make a point about the israeli claim to the land. it was clumsy I admit. but not anti semitic any more than you are anti persian or whatever .
I guess religion in general winds me up cos I just see it all as superstition aand I HATE people using the bible as justification for things they are committing in the world of today.
It's just an old book for fucks sake made up by old men to keep the credulous quiet

and anyway are not the arabs in the majority? even in the pre1967 borders? how come they aint got a majority in the knesset? could it be clever constituency borders.
how many arabs in Knesset?

Israels claim to the land has fuck all to do with the bible... Have you actually read any Zionist ideology or are you just making wild guesses?

they're a minority.

the more you type the more I understand how utterly uninformed on the subject you are... Perhaps you should read a little about Israel before making wild accusations?

Complete oppression of the Muslim and Christian population of Israel? Social marginalisation and failure to even attempt to give Muslims and Christians a place as active participants in Israeli society - Israel was set up as a Jewish ethnic homeland in Palestine not a Jewish state, far from it in fact.

The whole idea of Zionism is surely a racist concept? even the UN saw fit to rule this on more than one occasion as a form of racial discrimination and xenophobia, I fail to see in what other context creating an exclusionary religious sanctum exclusively for one ethnicity would be deemed acceptable?

It alls seems very hypocritical to me and of course it was met with the old 'anti-Semite' schoolyard whine..


On a personal level though, being a non practising Jew by your own admission, how can your views or ideals on a non secular state hold any credibility or conviction? bizarre.

Israeli Arabs have voting rights, a full range of other civil and political rights, there are no anti-miscegenation laws and no policies of racial segregation.... In fact rightwing Jewish Israeli's are furious at the benefit schemes created for the Israeli minorities as they are vastly more generous than those in place for Israeli Jews.

There are racist Israeli's but that is not the same as a racist state.

The UN is an anti-Semitic organisation.

A central criterion of Zionism is that there should exist a nation in which Jews hold sovereignty, this is not unique to Judaism and you will find this ambition at the heart of most ethnic groups. 1500 years of persecution has demonstrated that there is need for such a homeland; you cannot relentlessly slaughter a demographic for millennia then scream racism when they attempt to retreat to a safe haven.

While nations like Malaysia, Sudan and Saudi Arabia openly practise racial policies - Israel opens its doors to anyone (Christians, Muslims and Atheists often join the IDF in return for citizenship), of course immigration policies favour those of Jewish descent without being exclusive to the Jewish people, but then find me a modern nation that doesn't share similar restrictions; Europe is exclusive to Europeans, America is exclusive to Americans, Australia is exclusive to Australians... Yet you're not accusing these nations of state endorsed racism?

Because history has taught us that anti-Semitism is a grossly exaggerated myth

I'm half way to practising; I keep mitzvot, attend shul and keep it frum.

i think they should send all our rubbish there, use israel as a landfill site. Thats all its good for.

prove it.

prove it that there is no truth in the text of the bible.

and i'm not arguing its true so you can't come back with "oh you prove its true then"

you seem to have very strong views so i'd like to see your proof.

unless you don't have any? then... that must mean you're acting on faith... so how are you any different from people who are religious? they are also acting on faith?

i'm talking about the mainstream religious here not extreamists cos i know you'll be wanting to use that one as well...

great post.

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