Carbon Footprints?? What a load of absolute tripe - talk about this months PC craze. I even feel sorry for Tony Blair having to waste his time having to say whether or not he's planning to reduce his carbon emmissions footprint to zero for the holidays he's had since he took power. Most of the damage we did to this world has already been done, and its countries like China and India we need to me worried about, more than we do about Mrs Scroggins down at number 15 down the road and her coal fire, or discussing it down the pub with a bunch of jumped up lefty youths. Energy has to come from somewhere - We already have numerous alternative means of generating it ... Lets governments legislate about those, or force manufacturers of certain goods to draw less power (just like they forced electrical goods to come with plugs). Once again - another case of the worlds problems being placed as the responsibility of individuals, instead of on the shoulders of the people who make REAL decisions that affect people. .... discuss
Re: Carbon Footprints?? The vast majority of murders are commited in the third world, this doesn't mean that those that kill in England should go unpunished. We may not do as much damage as China, but that isn't an exuse to ignore any damage we may be doing.
joe's right - we should still do our bit, i'm sure we caused MASSIVE problems in the 19th century with the industrial revolution, we can only now try and make up for the damage that was done. However it's true that it's only a drop in the ocean to what the other countries playing catch up are currently doing... all we can do now is get ready to deal with the consequences of the greed of humanity
Not if our portion of global pollution is 2% .... imagine if we had some kind of massive drive to cut down carbon footprints and we did something like cut 20% of our pollution..... it would mean our portion of global pollution would be an amazing 1.6% now .... 0.4% reduction. If we took all that media hype and public sentiment - and channeled it into maybe some kind of world summit/agreement on the kinds of technology used in power stations ... or tariffs on imported food flown all the way around the world just to shave a few pence off a leg of lamb or a punnet of blueberries perhaps .... ?
What youre suggesting is that people shouldn't be accountable for their own actions... which is a very strange stance. You're also overlooking the influence that the west has over the rest of the world... We can't preach of eco-friendly solutions until we've addressed our own issues.
i'd rather treat the problems and not the symptoms - legislation will have a much bigger effect on the world than a wave of pragmatic public opinion asking us to 'do our bit'. I wonder how much of this personal responsibilty on any topic actually has an effect on anyone other than a single person or maybe a few people around them. Im a great believer that a person is the master of their own destiny but im a complete sceptic about how we are all going to save the planet by discussing about how we can plant a tree to offset the carbon given off by the trains/cars we used that month to get to work or to tesco's (dicussing - not doing. A whole different kettle of fish )
i think it's far too little way too late, but everyone has to do something. but our civilisation is only a fraction of the history of this planet - it will go on, in some form, once we've killed each other suspermans old man said "humans have great potential" to destory & kill maybe - however, the 7 sins ( about the only thing in the bible i believe) are our biggest downfall and we can't escape them cheerful chap, aren't i?
Joe's right. Country borders are a very artificial thing - let's look at people as infdividuals. You (and I) almost certainly produce more carbon than an equivalent person in China - the argument that 'there's more of them so we don't count' doesn't really apply I don't think. As a westernised society, its easy for us to say 'you can't have air conditioning and the things we enjoy', without considering detriment to 3rd world quality of life as a result. Tony Blair appalled me (again) by referring to China in his justification of continuing to fly (which I shall too, incidentally). What he SHOULD have referred to is of course the United States - 25% of the worlds emissions for a few % of its population. Switching from a gas guzzling SUV to a diesel makes essentially no difference to quality of life. Turning off lights when not in the room makes no difference. Catching high quality public transport instead of driving makes no difference. Energy from wind power instead of coal power makes no difference. These are the areas in which the US can and must improve. Noones telling me that the US enjoys a particualrly higher quality of life than European nations, yet we emit a fraction of their carbon. Promoting efficiency to our transatlantic cousins is a better way of reducing carbon than preventing development in the 3rd world. We should be aiming for a world where a high quality of life with a high level of efficiency is enjoyed by all.
I reckon this country prefers wringing its hands about a PC dream that never comes true, than it does actually tackling problems like these head on. Im all for doing the right thing - and personally i'd love to think we were all making a positive contribution .... but this just smacks of another wave of popular thought that most people wont care about next month .... wishful thinking.
A problem fixed by legislation .... .... Not by people buying leaded petrol and then taking it home in carrier bags to 'de-lead' it
Re: Re: Carbon Footprints?? It's all very good to plead ignorance in reference to the Chinese contributing to global warming at a vastly accelerated rate in comparison to the UK, and that we are infallible should we take sufficient measures to reduce the amount we pollute. In reality it's the West that's responsible for the rapidly rising emissions being produced in the Far East to supply ever consumptive western markets and industry at a reduced cost. All we do is offset the environmental cost to the other side of the world to reap the economic benefit - we should be working much closer with China et al instead being complacent in the ridiculous fallacy that the UK contributes only 2% of global emissions.
It's nice to know your helping. Whilst your at it though you might as well go to the beach/river with an ice cream tub and fill it with water, seal it and take it home and do your bit to help prevent the sea rising as well.
Im sure people think they are 'helping' when your recycling bin's contents are mixed with your regular rubbish, and sent to a landfill in Thailand ..... wool. eyes.
Brid I love the idea that you are calling for state intervention for global warming when the rest of the time you are droning on about how the government is stealing your money for taxes . my take on this is that everybody has to do what they can. legislation will only take us so far and if the general population don't agree with the legislation then they will find ways round it. There has to be a sea change with peoples attitudes right round the world but I fear that this will only occur when the results of global warming are truly upon us and then it will be too late. and by the way, every worthwhile social change from democracy to gay rights has come about from the 'PC brigade' agitating for it against a reluctant conservative majority.
We live in the age of spin - the people arent listened to right now. I believe in government at heart - what i dont believe in is lies and waste and me footing the bill for it. Philosophically - is there REALLY anything we can do about the environmental problems we have created right now? Yeah yeah we can 'do our bit' but until someone invents a miraculous energy source, or someone has the balls to put wind and solar farms around the countryside ..... is this just too little to late? With the population increasing at an unsustainable rate, with new superpowers with monumental needs for power - rising .... will these measures solve our problems, will they even have the slightest effect. Some people are even inclined to say that this is just the human race doing what nature intended - which was to wipe itself out at some point. Either way its unsustainable the way it is now and piecemeal solutions like these dont fill me with much confidence. We are never going to get around the fact that the states, china and india are going to be the main players in this issue - if we're supposed to be doing our bit, then surely the spirit of collectively saving the world should extend to everyone as a whole working on a solution, and not just turning our noses up at everyone else while pontificating that at least in jolly old england we have a neutral carbon footprint. Roll on the mad max days
well you might be right, maybe it's all hopeless. sometimes I feel that it is (specially on Mondays ) but I know that if everybody just does nothing cos they think that nothing can be done then we truly are fucked. So it's better to do what pathetic little thing we can then at least we have a chance even if it's tiny. saying that, I just flew back from Brussels so I'd better get me spade out and plant a few trees sharpish
and I don't believe in lies and waste either, but most of what the state does is not lies and waste, it's just that you don't hear about that cos it's not news
