Jack Straw...

Jack Straw...

...is a brave man.

I think he has a point and it is certainly worthy of discussion, particularly in the wider context of the diversity vs integration debate.

the veils are traditional and women can choose to wear them or not in this country . How is it really going to make any difference weather they wear them or not ! apart from when im pist and try to chat sed women up ill have more of idea what they look like?

Even Ruth Kelly, who I normally despise, has entered the fray:

I must admit, I don't know any woman who normally wears a veil, and I can't even remember the last time I spoke to one.

But I don't accept that Straw is automatically racist, as some have claimed, for suggesting that concealing one's identity in such a way might make the other party they are talking to uncomfortable.

Andy you're desperate to start as many news topics as possible

You should see the work I should be doing if you think this is boring

I didn't mean to imply it was boring, sorry

Anyway, on topic, I think it's a bit offside making comments like that without having anything other to back it up than his opinion. I don't think the veils prohibit integration in anyway, and if he wants to focus on the problems of immigration I'd suggest he start with language.

And what the fuck is with this shitty graphic :

its makes some people uncomfortable when thyre talking to a pair of eyes through a slit.

i think its quite rude to hide your face when your talking to someone, i know its seen as a tadition in the islamic world, but women do not have to have their face fully covered up.

shitty graphic i wont say a word

absolutely ridiculous

Re: Jack Straw...

what hsi good point?

Its up there with scrapping faith schools as one of the worst political decisions of the year.

Re: Re: Jack Straw...

That covering your face might make people you are talking to feel awkward in the narrowest sense, and that perhaps we should be considering integration over differentiation as a wider means of improving social cohesion in the broader sense.

Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

lol why should the government dictate how the nations citizens should dress?

Perhaps we could all wear British uniforms? Would that make you feel more secure?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

Lol, you're not free to wear what you want - when I was doing freshers week a few years ago, someone wrote 'I love cunt' on my T-shirt, and I was asked to remove it by a policeman

The government/media also dictates that you're not allowed to wear, let's think, Nazi uniforms, so, sorry, I don't accept your argument that the government shouldn't be allowed to dictate what you should wear.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

then you're a racist... a t-shirt with cunt and nazi uniforms may be deemed offensive... how is islamic dress offensive?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

What a couple of stupid examples

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

Lol, there you go, your answer to everything. I suppose despite Straw's years of work towards racial equality, he's now racist too? Along with the UN, the BBC, the police, and, in fact, most of the Western world.

They make people uncomfortable.....apparently not seeing someone's face makes Jack Straw feel uncomfortable when talking to them.

Either way, I've already said that I haven't spoken to anyone wearing a veil in years, so really I'm not paricularly bothered if people do or do not.

My point, looking at the broader implication of what Straw has said, is that years of encouraging racial segregation into different communities, locations, cultures, languages hasn't really produced a properly integrated multiethnic society, and that perhaps an approach closer the American/Australian model of promoting membership of a national culture might be a more appropriate response.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

Australia and America are two of the most racist states in the "developed world", we have less race crimes and less racist policies than either states.

Jack Straw made an islamophobic comment, what does integration into a community have to do with ditching your religious beliefs?!?!?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

It's not Islamophobic really though is it? Any more that it's discriminatory for a foreign person to ask a visiting Western female to cover up in a religious site or something? You can be made to feel uncomfortable by the dress of a different culture without being intrinsically racist towards that culture. I would refer you again to the wealth of information regarding the work of Straw towards promoting racial integration.

I think in general we should be working towards fuller integration of all minorities into societies.

This applies all across the board -

- I'd like to see greater efforts to encourage people to live in more differentiated communities, and preventing the current aggregation of racial groups in residential areas

- I'd like to see gay/straight people able to enjoy a club together - this means I disagree with turning people away because of their orientation, which I remember you disagreed with me on

- I'd like to see all people in this country encouraged to appreciate some of our basic values - this applies particularly to areas such as sexual equality and freedome of speech; my reading suggests that sex discrimination persists to a greater degree in some Muslim communities than some others.

There are good historical precedents too - segregating racial groups might provide an easy short term solution to immediate problems of discrimination, but is it really viable long term? Black/white schools/buses in the southern US 60 years ago? White/Muslim only areas in the UK today?

We've got to work to fuller integration....well-intended efforts to encourage diversity are promoting discrimination.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jack Straw...

Do you understand what islamophobia is?

You are singling out a vulnerable demographic and forcing them to ditch their religious values... I like to make eye contact with people when I talk to them, however I would never support a law that would ban sun glasses.... It would kill poor alexander

What you're promoting is not fuller integration but forced assimiliation, the Spanish inquisition followed a similar pattern; muslims and jews were forced to convert from their religion or face expulsion or death.

If you are to deny someone their religious rights in the hope of making them more "British" then you are practising bigotry of the highest level.